Confederate flag "racism"

Plague · Jun 29, 2015

Personally I find all this to be pathetic. Just another reason for all these "activists" to get a so called "win" over the "racists". It's fucking sad how everyone views it as well.
The confederate flag was representing the South's unwillingness to conform to the requests of the north. Less than 80% of the confederate army was a slave owner, and quite a few were black.
You say the confederate flag is so racist because it was flown for 4 years over "slavery"? The American flag was flown for over 80 years over slavery, so by default it should be taken down as well.
In the height of the KKK there were 100x more American flags being flown by them than confederate flags.
The north depended on slavery just as much as the south did, also they owned slaves as well, so who is the racist here? The north just preferred to invest and profit off of the south.
Most of the slaves were actually treated quite well, if you owned something wouldn't you want to make sure it was taken care of and lasted as long as possible?
Black people were viewed as less than human, but that's because they were forced to be property, so people because accustomed to it.
There were also black slave owners, so all these "activists" should check the history books saying only the white people are racist.

All of this spurred because of the recent shooting, yet there were trees in some of his pictures, and houses. Should we destroy all of them as well? They were around when slavery was.
I hadn't seen any other thread regarding this, so figured I'd make one stating my opinion of it.

swer · Jun 29, 2015

By the ways things are going, there's going to be a Civil War v2. It's because Obama is getting all of the minorities on his side to essentially fight the whites. That's why "race" is such a big thing during his time as President. He goes to "black rallies" along with his wife and children. They go to gain support of the minorities so they will vote Democrat. That's why almost every Republican is white and almost every Democrat is a minority. I mean I'm a minority, but let's get real. Sorry this is off topic.

Plague · Jun 29, 2015

Brennan said:
By the ways things are going, there's going to be a Civil War v2. It's because Obama is getting all of the minorities on his side to essentially fight the whites. That's why "race" is such a big thing during his time as President. He goes to "black rallies" along with his wife and children. They go to gain support of the minorities so they will vote Democrat. That's why almost every Republican is white and almost every Democrat is a minority. I mean I'm a minority, but let's get real. Sorry this is off topic.

Ironically it's on topic. It's how the world is going now, just a modern day version of what I've posted.

Tiger · Jun 29, 2015

Treated well? So not being allowed to go to school, read, or actually have a real life is being treated well. And the North didn't want to have slaves as they felt that they didn't need them. The North slaves were free they could read, go to school and more. Still there was discrimination. And personally the confederate flag also represents how the south felt to keep slaves so it is racist. Every black person considers it racist because of the past. How about we do the same thing to white people and see how they feel about it then wait 100 or so years and view the results? There will always be animosity between white and black because of the past. White people caused it. Also if some were treated so well why did they run away?

Shift · Jun 29, 2015

Plague said:
Personally I find all this to be pathetic. Just another reason for all these "activists" to get a so called "win" over the "racists". It's fucking sad how everyone views it as well.
The confederate flag was representing the South's unwillingness to conform to the requests of the north. Less than 80% of the confederate army was a slave owner, and quite a few were black.
You say the confederate flag is so racist because it was flown for 4 years over "slavery"? The American flag was flown for over 80 years over slavery, so by default it should be taken down as well.
In the height of the KKK there were 100x more American flags being flown by them than confederate flags.
The north depended on slavery just as much as the south did, also they owned slaves as well, so who is the racist here? The north just preferred to invest and profit off of the south.
Most of the slaves were actually treated quite well, if you owned something wouldn't you want to make sure it was taken care of and lasted as long as possible?
Black people were viewed as less than human, but that's because they were forced to be property, so people because accustomed to it.
There were also black slave owners, so all these "activists" should check the history books saying only the white people are racist.

All of this spurred because of the recent shooting, yet there were trees in some of his pictures, and houses. Should we destroy all of them as well? They were around when slavery was.
I hadn't seen any other thread regarding this, so figured I'd make one stating my opinion of it.

It is a flag that represented suffering and racial inequality during the civil war era but it is a piece of history and should not be taken down.

Bet if someone commited a shooting with the American flag it would not be taken down even though it has oppressed more people than slavery.

Also don't forget that African slave catchers which were Black, caught and sold their own people and traded them with the European for Firearms.

I do agree that gentrification has had a big part in the big issues we face present day and that the flag might not sit well with the African-American community but you don't see me tearing down a Spanish flag because they killed millions of my ancestors.

If anything Latinos were treated better than blacks during the civil rights era because they had European blood in them and thus weren't viewed as savages.

NULLNULLNULL · Jun 29, 2015

Generally I am very much against censorship of any kind, but for this particular circumstance I think the flag should be outlawed. The flag does not perpetuate 'racism' as some liberals say, but I think it definitely gives off some anti-black connotations. After all, the Confederacy seceded because they wanted state right's to keep black's enslaved and inferior to whites. Now in the modern age, I cannot think of one redeeming value that the flag brings to our country, it is a sign of traitors and people who advocated for the ascendancy of whites over blacks. Southerners who claim it has heritage and sentimental value have to recognize that it also has negative sentiment for blacks. The KKK used the Confederate flag to represent them as they senselessly killed and brutalized blacks. This would be like Nazi descendant Germans having Nazi flag bumper-stickers and saying it was their 'heritage'. At the end of the day it is a argument over feelings and perception but I can't understand why we should allow a symbol of traitors to be publicly displayed in our country.

Plague · Jun 29, 2015

Tiger said:
Treated well? So not being allowed to go to school, read, or actually have a real life is being treated well. And the North didn't want to have slaves as they felt that they didn't need them. The North slaves were free they could read, go to school and more. Still there was discrimination. And personally the confederate flag also represents how the south felt to keep slaves so it is racist. Every black person considers it racist because of the past. How about we do the same thing to white people and see how they feel about it then wait 100 or so years and view the results? There will always be animosity between white and black because of the past. White people caused it. Also if some were treated so well why did they run away?

They were given shelter, food, and most were allowed commodities. And no they were, that's sort of where the SLAVE part comes into play. They weren't allowed to do any of that in the north either until the states started abolishing it.

The confederate flag represents the opposition to the government and wanting to keep the country how it has been since EVERYONE agreed. There was even a plan to abolish slavery in the south over a 5 year period.
Also the fact you say "let's do the same thing to white people" shows that you are one of the supporters of the destrucion of history. When it was mostly Africans collecting them for transport to the US/EU nations as @shift has said. It's fucked how the history has been twisted and abused to make someone the bad guy in the situation.

It's like saying you WERE a murdered and now you aren't so you are better. The north as just as bad as the south, so no flag should be considered better than the other. The south just wanted to keep what was for the economy, not because they simply enjoyed owning slaves for no reason.

wash said:
Generally I am very much against censorship of any kind, but for this particular circumstance I think the flag should be outlawed. The flag does not perpetuate 'racism' as some liberals say, but I think it definitely gives off some anti-black connotations. After all, the Confederacy seceded because they wanted state right's to keep black's enslaved and inferior to whites. Now in the modern age, I cannot think of one redeeming value that the flag brings to our country, it is a sign of traitors and people who advocated for the ascendancy of whites over blacks. Southerners who claim it has heritage and sentimental value have to recognize that it also has negative sentiment for blacks. The KKK used the Confederate flag to represent them as they senselessly killed and brutalized blacks. This would be like Nazi descendant Germans having Nazi flag bumper-stickers and saying it was their 'heritage'. At the end of the day it is a argument over feelings and perception but I can't understand why we should allow a symbol of traitors to be publicly displayed in our country.

The Swastika is actually a religious symbol of Hinduism, so it is. The confederate flag is/was flown by white supremacists. But so was the American flag, so by what you are trying to classify here it should be taken down as well.

Tiger · Jun 29, 2015

Plague said:
They were given shelter, food, and most were allowed commodities. And no they were, that's sort of where the SLAVE part comes into play. They weren't allowed to do any of that in the north either until the states started abolishing it.

The confederate flag represents the opposition to the government and wanting to keep the country how it has been since EVERYONE agreed. There was even a plan to abolish slavery in the south over a 5 year period.
Also the fact you say "let's do the same thing to white people" shows that you are one of the supporters of the destrucion of history. When it was mostly Africans collecting them for transport to the US/EU nations as @shift has said. It's fucked how the history has been twisted and abused to make someone the bad guy in the situation.

It's like saying you WERE a murdered and now you aren't so you are better. The north as just as bad as the south, so no flag should be considered better than the other. The south just wanted to keep what was for the economy, not because they simply enjoyed owning slaves for no reason.

The Swastika is actually a religious symbol of Hinduism, so it is. The confederate flag is/was flown by white supremacists. But so was the American flag, so by what you are trying to classify here it should be taken down as well.

The south enjoyed having slaves because they did all the work that they didn't want to for FREE. And in the north it wasn't against the law for them to read. In the south it was. Flag still mean't to the south that african americans were less people. Unless it is your race that it was done to you do not understand the feeling. In the south black people were lynched for no reason. Go and google the black kid who was killed just for saying hi to a white lady in a store.And @wash said what i was gonna put her bout the flag.

California · Jun 29, 2015

Ugh when will people understand politicians don't have hearts, they have interests. It looks better to the public to be against these things.

I'm black , from california I find the confederate flag not exactly racist but prejudice and represents a bad time . I live in Georgia so I know what I'm talking about when I say typical white males who drive with those flags on there trucks aren't exactly friendly to black people. They tolerate them. And I live in a upscale part of Georgia and I still see it . What people fail to see is getting rid of that flag isn't going to change someone's heart condition. Should the flag be hanging in front a building were laws are passed and a place of power ? Fuck no. But if a person wants to have it on their property or whatever let them.

NULLNULLNULL · Jun 29, 2015

Plague said:
The Swastika is actually a religious symbol of Hinduism, so it is. The confederate flag is/was flown by white supremacists. But so was the American flag, so by what you are trying to classify here it should be taken down as well.

First off, Nazi flags are outlawed in Germany, it doesn't matter where the etymological roots of the symbol comes from. Secondly, I really think you're painting the wrong picture here for yourself. You're acting like the US unanimously agreed that slavery was justified, when that wasn't the case per se. Many efforts were made by anti-slavery advocates way before the Civil War, but none were large scale or drastic because presidents knew it would cause them to lose the support of the South. I am aware that many founding fathers such as Jefferson were hypocrites on the issue however, and owned slaves but also championed slavery's abolition at the same time, but the fact that efforts were made in legislation is evident enough. Also, I would strongly disagree with the idea that racism was used to solely for economic exploitation. If that were true, they why would people still be racist today? Many Southerners to this day still believe in racist ideology while I would argue most Northerners are not racist. Keeping the Confederate flag is celebrating anti-progress as far as I'm concerned. The rest of America has left those ways behind, while some of the South still want to keep it alive.

Plague · Jun 29, 2015

Tiger said:
The south enjoyed having slaves because they did all the work that they didn't want to for FREE. And in the north it wasn't against the law for them to read. In the south it was. Flag still mean't to the south that african americans were less people. Unless it is your race that it was done to you do not understand the feeling. In the south black people were lynched for no reason. Go and google the black kid who was killed just for saying hi to a white lady in a store.And @wash said what i was gonna put her bout the flag.

It technically wasn't free, they did pay for the slaves. So that part is irrelevant. And they were viewed as property because other Africans were the ones transporting them.
By assuming that the confederate flag was bad, then what flag was good? A flag that used to hold slavery but now all of a sudden is so holy xD?
Yes, they were treated less than human as I've said, however that's just how it was viewed back then. The current thing is so called "letting go of a flag" why not let go of the past and just get over the flag? Bringing it down will never change what has happened, actually agreeing for once would fix a lot of things.

Also as for the black kid killed, why don't you google all the white people killed by black people that never made headlines?
http://www.westernjournalism.com/3-blacks-randomly-kill-white-man-tn-mainstream-media-silent/
http://conservative-headlines.com/2...ndom-racial-hate-crime-in-stuttgart-arkansas/
http://ktla.com/2015/04/29/fontana-...ed-unprovoked-baseball-bat-beating-in-rialto/
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ideo-Hate-Crime-Assault-Police-296257381.html

Racism is a 2 way street here.

Shift · Jun 29, 2015

wash said:
Generally I am very much against censorship of any kind, but for this particular circumstance I think the flag should be outlawed. The flag does not perpetuate 'racism' as some liberals say, but I think it definitely gives off some anti-black connotations. After all, the Confederacy seceded because they wanted state right's to keep black's enslaved and inferior to whites. Now in the modern age, I cannot think of one redeeming value that the flag brings to our country, it is a sign of traitors and people who advocated for the ascendancy of whites over blacks. Southerners who claim it has heritage and sentimental value have to recognize that it also has negative sentiment for blacks. The KKK used the Confederate flag to represent them as they senselessly killed and brutalized blacks. This would be like Nazi descendant Germans having Nazi flag bumper-stickers and saying it was their 'heritage'. At the end of the day it is a argument over feelings and perception but I can't understand why we should allow a symbol of traitors to be publicly displayed in our country.

Then we should take down the California flag since it represents the injustices aganist Chinese immigrants before and after the gold rush which was when an influx of them arrived. History is History and people need to learn from their mistakes. Keep the flag up so people remember the history behind it.

Plague · Jun 29, 2015

wash said:
First off, Nazi flags are outlawed in Germany, it doesn't matter where the etymological roots of the symbol comes from. Secondly, I really think you're painting the wrong picture here for yourself. You're acting like the US unanimously agreed that slavery was justified, when that wasn't the case per se. Many efforts were made by anti-slavery advocates way before the Civil War, but none were large scale or drastic because presidents knew it would cause them to lose the support of the South. I am aware that many founding fathers such as Jefferson were hypocrites on the issue however, and owned slaves but also championed slavery's abolition at the same time, but the fact that efforts were made in legislation is evident enough. Also, I would strongly disagree with the idea that racism was used to solely for economic exploitation. If that were true, they why would people still be racist today? Many Southerners to this day still believe in racist ideology while I would argue most Northerners are not racist. Keeping the Confederate flag is celebrating anti-progress as far as I'm concerned. The rest of America has left those ways behind, while some of the South still want to keep it alive.

Yes, in Germany. You are comparing a mass massacre to slavery, it is completely unrelatable. Also, if the U.S. didn't fully agree with it then import of slaves wouldn't have been allowed in the beginning. Also everyone saying it's just the south, I know many people as far as Washington that own a Confederate flag. Because of the simple ideal that was being pressed with the succession.

As @California said it just was involved with a bad time, and stupid childish people think it represent "racism" so they fly it because it's cool. Also, black people are just as racist as white people if not more so.

California said:
Ugh when will people understand politicians don't have hearts, they have interests. It looks better to the public to be against these things.

I'm black , from california I find the confederate flag not exactly racist but prejudice and represents a bad time . I live in Georgia so I know what I'm talking about when I say typical white males who drive with those flags on there trucks aren't exactly friendly to black people. They tolerate them. And I live in a upscale part of Georgia and I still see it . What people fail to see is getting rid of that flag isn't going to change someone's heart condition. Should the flag be hanging in front a building were laws are passed and a place of power ? Fuck no. But if a person wants to have it on their property or whatever let them.

Thank you, finally the point I'm trying to get across.

NULLNULLNULL · Jun 29, 2015

Shift said:
Then we should take down the California flag since it represents the injustices aganist Chinese immigrants before and after the gold rush which was when an influx of them arrived. History is History and people need to learn from their mistakes. Keep the flag up so people remember the history behind it.

Or we could just read about it in the millions of books we have? I fail to understand your logic. Having the flag flying publicly is completely unnecessary for the sake of remembering history. I guess Germany should put up Nazi flags everywhere to remind people that the Nazis had bad ideas too.

Plague · Jun 29, 2015

wash said:
Or we could just read about it in the millions of books we have? I fail to understand your logic. Having the flag flying publicly is completely unnecessary for the sake of remembering history. I guess Germany should put up Nazi flags everywhere to remind people that the Nazis had bad ideas too.

Lol your logic is juvenile. By your logic the American flag should be burned and buried. We've killed many innocent civilians. We supported slavery. We kill for money. The list goes on.
Why have any flag if not to remember or show support of the ideals behind it?

NULLNULLNULL · Jun 29, 2015

Plague said:
Yes, in Germany. You are comparing a mass massacre to slavery, it is completely unrelatable. Also, if the U.S. didn't fully agree with it then import of slaves wouldn't have been allowed in the beginning. Also everyone saying it's just the south, I know many people as far as Washington that own a Confederate flag. Because of the simple ideal that was being pressed with the succession.

Yes slavery and genocide are different but the underlying theme is the same: they are both symbols of corrupted ideologies. Also, if the American flag represents just as much racism as the Confederate flag, they why do all pro-racist groups use the Confederate one? Listen I get what you're saying but I just can't accept that this symbol is being celebrated in our country.

Shift · Jun 29, 2015

wash said:
Yes slavery and genocide are different but the underlying theme is the same: they are both symbols of corrupted ideologies. Also, if the American flag represents just as much racism as the Confederate flag, they why do all pro-racist groups use the Confederate one? Listen I get what you're saying but I just can't accept that this symbol is being celebrated in our country.

I'm not saying it should be celebrated, I'm just saying we need to keep it public as a reminder of what our country has gone through so minorities could have equal rights.

NULLNULLNULL · Jun 29, 2015

Plague said:
Lol your logic is juvenile. By your logic the American flag should be burned and buried. We've killed many innocent civilians. We supported slavery. We kill for money. The list goes on.
Why have any flag if not to remember or show support of the ideals behind it?

You're acting like America STANDS for killing innocent civilians lol, the South specifically STOOD for enslaving blacks. Every nation has its callous anomalies but in the South it ACCEPTED to be racist asshole. If anyone in America today said that they supported killing civies in drone strikes they would be fucking ejected. If someone said they hated blacks in the South it wouldn't even be a surprise to most.

Plague · Jun 29, 2015

wash said:
Yes slavery and genocide are different but the underlying theme is the same: they are both symbols of corrupted ideologies. Also, if the American flag represents just as much racism as the Confederate flag, they why do all pro-racist groups use the Confederate one? Listen I get what you're saying but I just can't accept that this symbol is being celebrated in our country.

And I could literally go get many many more. Anything else to say about flags?

NULLNULLNULL · Jun 29, 2015

Plague said:
And I could literally go get many many more. Anything else to say about flags?

Not much I can say to counter this as you've painted me into a corner, but I do not think that blacks look upon the American flag with the same gall that they view the Confederate flag with, and that's what sparked this issue in the first place. Once again I will state that I the point that all nations or groups have had their mistakes and should be held accountable for them.

Confederate flag "racism"

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